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Parking in Arras Square, St Stephens Lane

Discussion in 'Civic & Community' started by martinc, Feb 13, 2017.

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  1. martinc

    martincMember

    Still a big problem with no sign of any action from either SCC of IBC. So far as we understand their is a Traffic Order preventing parking but as there are no signs up it can't be enforced. IBC would be responsible for the enforcement but they have advised us that they are waiting for SCC to sort out the signs. SCC also advise that there are potential land ownership issues that may be complicating the issue. Bottom line is we can't get a definitive answer from anyone about exactly what is being done and when we can expect the Square to return to being a pleasant public open space and not a free car park..
     
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      1. dan5
        9 replies
      2. martinc
        6 replies

    • Ipswi

      IpswiGuest

      It is most likely a police matter?

      Arras Square is private land but as it is a "public place" (S192 RTA 1988) drivers aren't exempt from the Road Traffic Act. So for example, it doesn't have to be the public highway... so supermarket car parks are public places. In regards to Arras Square, any vehicles obstructing the flow of pedestrians and wheelchair users would be causing a specific offence... this morning cars were parked on St Stephens Lane; vans parked near BHS, not so.

      http://www.1itl.com/news/284/

      http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/192

      Of course, these cheeky drivers are passing signs prohibiting their uses.
      36  Drivers to comply with traffic signs.
      (1)Where a traffic sign, being a sign—

      (a)of the prescribed size, colour and type, or

      (b)of another character authorised by the Secretary of State under the provisions in that behalf of the M1Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984,

      has been lawfully placed on or near a road, a person driving or propelling a vehicle who fails to comply with the indication given by the sign is guilty of an offence.

      (2)A traffic sign shall not be treated for the purposes of this section as having been lawfully placed unless either—

      (a)the indication given by the sign is an indication of a statutory prohibition, restriction or requirement, or

      (b)it is expressly provided by or under any provision of the Traffic Acts that this section shall apply to the sign or to signs of a type of which the sign is one;

      and, where the indication mentioned in paragraph (a) of this subsection is of the general nature only of the prohibition, restriction or requirement to which the sign relates, a person shall not be convicted of failure to comply with the indication unless he has failed to comply with the prohibition, restriction or requirement to which the sign relates.

      http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/part/I/crossheading/directions-to-traffic-and-to-pedestrians-and-traffic-signs

      I think Suffolk Constabulary have refused to take action signposting people to one of the two local authorities. So in a nutshell:- (a) Unless they are going there for access (genuine tradespeople) and (b) not obstructing St Stephens Lane or the pathway besides the church (St Stephens Church Lane) even if the vehicle is mostly on private land; they have committed an offence. I am disappointed Suffolk Police hasn't enforced this but at the same time not surprised.
       
    • OP
      OP
      martinc

      martincMember

      This is what I got from IBC parking when I queried it after I was told by SCC it was nothing to do with them;

      14.12.16

      Whilst Parking Services hold a Traffic Regulation Order for the area, we are unable to enforce due to lack of signage. This has been reported to Suffolk County Council and requests have been made for the signage to be implemented. I would advise that a request is made via Suffolk County Councils website for the signage to be erected. The more reports Suffolk County Council receive, the more likely action is to be taken.

      If you require any further information, please do not hesitate to contact me directly.

      Kind regards

      Miss Offord
      Parking Officer

       
       
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      • Ipswi

        IpswiGuest

        This is why I am in favour of a unitary authority.

        IBC has the power through the TRO to enforce, but need signs, but it is SCC duty to install signs but neither want to know. Elsewhere the police won't get involved - as IBC hasn't got authority to enforce due to lack of signage, the burden surely defaults back to the police?

        The parking kills what should be a nice public place for pedestrians, a natural route between bus stations and to/from the waterfront via Turret Lane.

        This said the unsightly collection of A-boards outside the Tourist Information Centre... very cluttered and awful looking.
         
      • OP
        OP
        martinc

        martincMember

        ah, A boards, there's another topic! Back in the day there used to be a planning enforcement officer (I think it was) who patrolled the town centre and woe betide if you have an unauthorised A board obstructing the footpath. Now it seems its a free for all, the blessed things are everywhere, getting in the way, and now doubt cause significant obstructions to wheelchair users in some places.  Just another example of how no one really cares for our town centre anymore..
         
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        • Ipswi

          IpswiGuest

          I am shocked and confused that a council such as Ipswich Borough Council wouldn't be enforcing it.

          You are allowed to have an A-Board outside your shop on the forecourt but not the public highway. Most shops don't have a forecourt, so they go outside on the pavement. Some shops are considerate where they are placed. Some stick their A-board nowhere near their shop and the council doesn't bat an eyelid!

          Some of my "personal favourites" over the years:-

          • Grumpy Mole Cafe - A-board 1 metre away from Giles Circus Statue. The cafe was 85m down the road?

          • Pump & Grind - A-board obstruction (see Sept 2015 Streetview) of Tavern St. A good 80m around the corner

          • Armafone - A-board near bus stop outside Ipswich Furniture Project - opposite side of the road!

          • Arlingtons - A-board near the postbox with Westgate St junction - approx 106m away!

          • Cafe Basso etc. - Tacket St - cluttered with a cluster of 6 A-boards

          • Tandem Personnel - based at The Walk... I remember they stuck 2 large A-boards in the middle of buttermarket a few years ago.


          I don't mind small businesses being enterprising and signposting within reason. If you are in a side street, you won't get any customers if you can't get seen. Those above take the biscuit.
           
        • OP
          OP
          martinc

          martincMember

          made me laugh the other day, (not much in the town centre does) where we have the road works in Queens St there is only a very narrow footpath left on the east side currently but several businesses still had their A boards out and people were struggling to get through in two directions, having to squeeze passed the boards!
           
        • Ipswi

          IpswiGuest

          I am thinking of setting Ipswich Borough Council a challenge of 10 tasks... control A-boards will be one of them, what can the other nine be? I might create a new topic for it.

          A-board abuse in Ipswich is rather counter-productive, it has got to the stage where I don't notice the content of such and would need to physical stop to read it (perhaps with a couple of exceptions).

          Will Queen Street be complete prior to the local elections? Will they come back and dig it up?!
           
        • OP
          OP
          martinc

          martincMember

          going round in circles on this one, I may save my NCP daily parking fee and go and stick my car there then...



           
           
        • OP
          OP
          martinc

          martincMember

          hang on, some more has appeared..

           
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          • Ipswi

            IpswiGuest

            Unitary Authority. I understand IBC frustration, half of their powers seem to require SCC to do A, B or C first. As highways authority, it is SCC that do all the permit parking yet it is IBC that enforces it. A really silly system which needs to be history. They seem hooked on too much that it is private land... forgetting the signs preventing people going down there in the first place.

            Both councils are happy with passing the buck... They used to be located opposite sides of the town centre! Which in itself wasn't that far in actual terms... however, now they are located opposite sides of the road... and communication and cooperation has got really bad. Labour Ipswich Borough Council and Conservative Suffolk County Council have done a deal with each other to say they are working together better (pre-election)... post-election it will be back to the usual childish behaviour of our politicians.

            I will be hitting the roads next month to start spreading a message about an alternative.
             
          • dan5

            dan5ModeratorStaff Member

            I went past today a lot of parking abuses especially in St Stephens Lane at the bottom. Not being enforced.

            There has been a sign for how ever many years further down at Friars St (it had been re-positioned; StreetView gives the answer of since at least 2009) giving 200 yards prior warning before the sign near the mini-roundabout that keeps getting hit.

            StreetView snapshots below... the sign just before St Stephens Lane has changed over the years so once snapshot has the old version inset.

            St Stephens Lane, Arras Square etc. 200 yard prohibited sign 1/3

            Second advanced warning with roundabout to turnaround

            Third and final warning, no parking in St Stephens Lane and Arras Square

            There has been reports of ticketing happening in Princes St... but why are they not walking/driving 300 yards to then give people a ticket here? The town's Tourist Information Centre (TIC) is located nearby it doesn't look good for the town but we know tourism isn't a major focus.
             
          • Ipswi

            IpswiGuest

            They need to relocate the OCM bus station, create more paving (public area) outside the pub and take away the massive amount of paving the other side, move the zebra crossing so people walk directly to St Stephens Lane. Could always relocate the OCM bus station to behind Grafton House.
             
          • OP
            OP
            martinc

            martincMember

            Apparently the police have been there today and put warning notices on all the cars. Things are looking up.... at long last..
             
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            • mclean

              mcleanNew Member

              Here is a link to the advisory notice attached to all the cars. Not my car, I sneaked a look at the notice on one car.

              http://imgur.com/a/LhGEH

              There was a PCSO standing in the square for half an hour observing all the cars before putting the advisory notice on the windscreens. He said there had been a lot of complaints from some businesses, especially the newly opened restaurants but most from Sainsburys as their delivery lorries often get blocked by cars parking on the side by Revs.

              Let's hope this enforcement is ongoing. Illegal parking in the town centre is a bugbear of mine, it's ugly but unfortunately is poorly enforced in Ipswich. Outside the Corn Exchange, Princes St (both sides of Giles), Cornhill, Lloyds Avenue are frequently blighted especially on market days.

               

               
               
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